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Winter 2022-2023 | Discussion and Outlooks


NKYSnowLover

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  • Meteorologist
26 minutes ago, Iceresistance said:

Oh jeez! I and the PNW may get HAMMERED!

Welp, here we go

The PNW over the next week or so is about to get some really nice snow. Classic down the coast low pressure with cold air pushing in from the north and eastern areas. 

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NOV 20-27, 2010

Screenshot_20221122-194229_Chrome.jpg.9823a94bebf5ddabdf58027df736db39.jpg

12z EPS forecast DEC 2-7

Screenshot_20221122-194353_Chrome.jpg.1a2bc6b6d4ebc3160e5a531e0cf22619.jpg

 

Pretty similar. MJO not the same but very similar 500mb.

So how might a monthly mean -PNA, -EPO, -NAO pattern progress. Now this is just one year, & there are a few other years with better MJO alignment. Anyway, here was the weekly progression of DEC, 2010.

Screenshot_20221122-194949_Chrome.jpg.0e2c8ed3c10c82c59f16fe830c653402.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195032_Chrome.jpg.8d3cab6d2f0e5ab05dbb33a8299cce07.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195104_Chrome.jpg.61758a03ec9d1bdb1e8f6219ade02f0d.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195139_Chrome.jpg.71517ee6125bdfa891ab5ff1784aa410.jpg

 

My point is it can still be good for the east & I believe will be as MJO progresses. 

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1 hour ago, Grace said:

NOV 20-27, 2010

Screenshot_20221122-194229_Chrome.jpg.9823a94bebf5ddabdf58027df736db39.jpg

12z EPS forecast DEC 2-7

Screenshot_20221122-194353_Chrome.jpg.1a2bc6b6d4ebc3160e5a531e0cf22619.jpg

 

Pretty similar. MJO not the same but very similar 500mb.

So how might a monthly mean -PNA, -EPO, -NAO pattern progress. Now this is just one year, & there are a few other years with better MJO alignment. Anyway, here was the weekly progression of DEC, 2010.

Screenshot_20221122-194949_Chrome.jpg.0e2c8ed3c10c82c59f16fe830c653402.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195032_Chrome.jpg.8d3cab6d2f0e5ab05dbb33a8299cce07.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195104_Chrome.jpg.61758a03ec9d1bdb1e8f6219ade02f0d.jpg

Screenshot_20221122-195139_Chrome.jpg.71517ee6125bdfa891ab5ff1784aa410.jpg

 

My point is it can still be good for the east & I believe will be as MJO progresses. 

18z GFS really highlighted the idea of a Greenland block really setting up around the first of the month. 12z caught onto it but didn't have quite the presentation 18z did. We then seem to go full bore Greenland block toward the end of the first week of December creating the ridge bridge via 12z not so much 18z but the idea is still there. This has the potential if it does form to last until at least early January before we potentially do a thaw situation. I would like to to see the EPO trend more negative with time but baby steps will get us there.

Euro not so gung ho about setting up the -NAO that quickly but the Urals high shows up which usually preludes the idea of 10mb attack on the SPV. Interesting couple of weeks coming up if things go as planned.

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1 hour ago, Grace said:

Screenshot_20221123-092659_Chrome.jpg.1509744a8b440624a5007d603886a3ae.jpg

 

I'm so depressed, look at how warm that is. 😔 😆 

It either won't materialize or will be more than cancelled out by an absurd heatwave around Christmas 😉

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On 11/23/2022 at 9:02 AM, Grace said:

Models finally coming to reality again & taking MJO into 8. It's amazing they forecasted it to be stuck in Phase 7 just like they did a couple of weeks ago. Next go around remember this. 

Screenshot_20221123-075736_Chrome.jpg.b8412c39b7eada1818dbc81da97f4eb2.jpg

Will it really matter if it only gets into 8 for a few days and is weak/ nearing the COD?

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1 hour ago, HVSNOWSTORM said:

Will it really matter if it only gets into 8 for a few days and is weak/ nearing the COD?

 

 Did it just matter over past 2 weeks?  Obviously it did. This passage will be similar to the last one.

 

Screenshot_20221124-094430_Chrome.jpg.0fe99aa16b038e5f4146c36cb6bd7b10.jpg

However although the trajectory of this mojo passage is gonna be almost identical to this last one it does not mean it will have the same effect.  Other factors can mute the signal which I believe will occur with this passage into 8.  But this is going to do the same loop 2 or 3 times probably. Rinse & repeat.  The next loop will be the more impactful mid-DEC.

 How much cold makes it East in the next couple of weeks depends heavily on whether the -NAO block develops & supresses the ridge. Thoughts have been the -NAO block becomes more earnest mid month.  Models had been giving hope that the block develops earlier and was spilling more colder air East; However the models are now backing off of that block a little bit  Giving more influence to the East Ridge. Models often jump the gun with -NAO block development. 

 Bottom line is we'll have to wait and see how it shakes out early month with MJO. smart money is arctic cold upper Midwest modifying as it moves East then ridge returning. After that good bet of -EPO, -AO, -NAO & a possible SPV split. 

Edited by Grace
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Happy Thanksgiving everyone! 

With a lot of model uncertainty over next 2 weeks watching East Asia might be more helpful since it's usually around a week before. 

195209134_gfs_z500a_ea_fh0-198(1).gif.6ca24927734d742b733bd5f29f72b816.gif

Don't watch ok precrip type but just the track & contour lines. No sustained cold but rather cold shots that become increasingly colder.

gfs_mslp_pcpn_frzn_ea_fh6-198.gif.a34ec369206812f838fdb2ddfcba528b.gif

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2 hours ago, Grace said:

18z GEFS...👀

Screenshot_20221124-175011_Chrome.jpg.4cae0a816eaa04b6abe7b4d830ce3fcc.jpg

Screenshot_20221124-175039_Chrome.jpg.1da1c7eb9d8af1104c62a0c5860cfb24.jpg

Screenshot_20221124-175101_Chrome.jpg.d9ce646bd1b3d68dfe41a6c68bfa2d41.jpg

Cold and dry with a few overrunning events is what I'm expecting for the Plains this winter so this looks the part. It's why this wet November (assuming the rainfall plays out Saturday too) would really come into the clutch for us. If we can get another 1-3" of QPF in the Central and Southern Plains the next couple of weeks before the cold is unleashed we can make it through a dry winter. 

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I think models are too shallow with the system next week based on the teleconnection forecast. The PNA will start trending negative the next couple of days along with the AO while the NAO trends positive. That suggests there should be enough blocking to slow the pattern down and force the trough to dig. SPC already has a rare day 5 30% and I think they're hitting it right on the head right now. Would not be surprised to see a winter storm in either Nebraska or Kansas, which would shift the following storm track south.

 

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